Legislature(1993 - 1994)

03/30/1993 03:00 PM House HES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
                                                                               
           HOUSE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES                         
                       STANDING COMMITTEE                                      
                         March 30, 1993                                        
                            3:00 p.m.                                          
                                                                               
  MEMBERS PRESENT                                                              
                                                                               
  Rep. Cynthia Toohey, Co-Chair                                                
  Rep. Con Bunde, Co-Chair                                                     
  Rep. Al Vezey                                                                
  Rep. Pete Kott                                                               
  Rep. Harley Olberg                                                           
  Rep. Bettye Davis                                                            
  Rep. Irene Nicholia                                                          
  Rep. Tom Brice                                                               
                                                                               
  MEMBERS ABSENT                                                               
                                                                               
  Rep. Gary Davis, Vice Chair                                                  
                                                                               
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
                                                                               
  HB 83:    "An Act making appropriations for construction and                 
            major maintenance of schools; and providing for an                 
            effective date."                                                   
                                                                               
            RESCINDED PRIOR ACTION; PASSED WITH INDIVIDUAL                     
            RECOMMENDATIONS                                                    
                                                                               
  *HCR 15:  Relating to Alaska school bus driver appreciation                  
            day.                                                               
                                                                               
            PASSED WITH INDIVIDUAL RECOMMENDATIONS                             
                                                                               
  HB 190:   "An Act relating to grants awarded by the Alaska                   
            Science and Technology Foundation."                                
                                                                               
            PASSED WITH INDIVIDUAL RECOMMENDATIONS                             
                                                                               
  *HB 174:  "An Act relating to organization of the public                     
            school system; and providing for an effective                      
            date."                                                             
                                                                               
            HEARD - NO ACTION TAKEN                                            
                                                                               
  (* First public hearing.)                                                    
                                                                               
  WITNESS REGISTER                                                             
                                                                               
  LINDA GJOSUND                                                                
  Aide to Rep. Gail Phillips                                                   
  Alaska State Legislature                                                     
  State Capitol, Room 216                                                      
  Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182                                                    
  Phone:  (907) 465-2689                                                       
  Position statement:  Represented prime sponsor of HCR 15                     
                                                                               
  TOM ANDERSON                                                                 
  Aide to Rep. Terry Martin                                                    
  Alaska State Legislature                                                     
  State Capitol Building, Room 411                                             
  Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                         
  Phone:  (907) 465-3783                                                       
  Position statement:  Represented prime sponsor of HB 210                     
                                                                               
  JOHN SIBERT, Executive Director                                              
  Alaska Science and Technology Foundation                                     
  550 W. Seventh Ave. #360                                                     
  Anchorage, Alaska 99501                                                      
  Phone:  (907) 272-4333                                                       
  Position statement:  Answered questions on HB 190                            
                                                                               
  CARL ROSE, Executive Director                                                
  Association of Alaska School Boards                                          
  316 W. 11th St.                                                              
  Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                         
  Phone:  (907) 586-1083                                                       
  Position statement:  Testified in opposition to HB 174                       
                                                                               
  DUANE GUILEY, Director                                                       
  Division of Education Finance and Support Services                           
  Department of Education                                                      
  801 W. 10th St., Suite 200                                                   
  Juneau, Alaska 99801-1894                                                    
  Phone:  (907) 465-2891                                                       
  Position statement:  Testified on HB 174                                     
                                                                               
  JOHN HOLST, Superintendent                                                   
  Craig City Schools                                                           
  P.O. Box 800                                                                 
  Craig, Alaska 99921                                                          
  Phone:  (907) 826-3274                                                       
  Position statement:  Testified in opposition to HB 174                       
                                                                               
  BOB WEINSTEIN, Superintendent                                                
  Southeast Island School District                                             
  P.O. Box 8340                                                                
  Ketchikan, Alaska 99901                                                      
  Position statement:  Raised questions on HB 174                              
                                                                               
  BOBETTE BUSH, Interim Superintendent                                         
  Kuspuk Schools                                                               
  Aniak, Alaska 99557                                                          
  Phone:  (907) 675-4250                                                       
  Position statement:  Testified in opposition to HB 174                       
                                                                               
  RON DELAY, Superintendent                                                    
  Tanana School District                                                       
  Tanana, Alaska 99777                                                         
  Position statement:  Raised questions on HB 174                              
                                                                               
  PAUL THIBODEAU                                                               
  P.O. Box 38                                                                  
  Craig, Alaska 99921                                                          
  Phone:  (907) 826-3275                                                       
  Position statement:  Testified in opposition to HB 174                       
                                                                               
  BILL MILLER, Superintendent                                                  
  Galena City School District                                                  
  P.O. Box 299                                                                 
  Galena, Alaska 99741                                                         
  Phone:  (907) 656-1205                                                       
  Position statement:  Testified in opposition to HB 174                       
                                                                               
  LEO MORGAN, President                                                        
  Kuspuk Schools                                                               
  Aniak, Alaska 99557                                                          
  Position statement:  Testified in opposition to HB 174                       
                                                                               
  PREVIOUS ACTION                                                              
                                                                               
  BILL:  HB  83                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: APPROP:SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION GRANT FUND                           
  BILL VERSION:                                                                
  SPONSOR(S): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR                                 
                                                                               
  TITLE: "An Act making appropriations for construction and                    
  major maintenance of schools; and providing for an effective                 
  date."                                                                       
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE    JRN-PG                     ACTION                                
  01/22/93       134    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  01/22/93       134    (H)   HES, FINANCE                                     
  01/22/93       134    (H)   -REVENUE FN (REV)  1/22/93                       
  01/22/93       134    (H)   -ZERO FISCAL NOTE  (DOT)                         
                              1/22/93                                          
  01/22/93       134    (H)   GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER                    
  02/09/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  02/09/93              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  03/09/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  03/09/93              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  03/16/93              (H)   HES AT 03:30 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  03/16/93              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  03/23/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  03/23/93              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  03/29/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  03/29/93              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  03/29/93              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  03/29/93              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  03/29/93              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  03/30/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
                                                                               
  BILL:  HCR 15                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: SCHOOL BUS DRIVER APPRECIATION DAY                              
  BILL VERSION:                                                                
  SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) PHILLIPS,James                                 
                                                                               
  TITLE: Relating to Alaska School Bus Driver Appreciation                     
  Day.                                                                         
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE    JRN-PG                     ACTION                                
  03/12/93       618    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  03/12/93       618    (H)   HEALTH, EDUCATION & SOCIAL                       
                              SERVICES                                         
  03/30/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
                                                                               
  BILL:  HB 190                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: AK SCIENCE & TECHNOLOGY FOUNDATION GRANTS                       
  BILL VERSION:                                                                
  SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) MARTIN                                         
                                                                               
  TITLE: "An Act relating to grants awarded by the Alaska                      
  Science and Technology Foundation."                                          
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE    JRN-PG                     ACTION                                
  03/01/93       493    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  03/01/93       493    (H)   LABOR & COMMERCE, HES                            
  03/25/93              (H)   L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 124                      
  03/25/93              (H)   MINUTE(L&C)                                      
  03/26/93       786    (H)   L&C RPT  2DP  2DNP  3NR                          
  03/26/93       787    (H)   DP: GREEN, WILLIAMS                              
  03/26/93       787    (H)   DNP: MACKIE, SITTON                              
  03/26/93       787    (H)   NR: MULDER, PORTER, HUDSON                       
  03/26/93       787    (H)   -ZERO FISCAL NOTE  (REV) 3/26/93                 
  03/30/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
                                                                               
  BILL:  HB 174                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: CONSOLIDATION OF SCHOOL DISTRICTS                               
  BILL VERSION:                                                                
  SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) MARTIN,Kott                                    
                                                                               
  TITLE: "An Act relating to organization of the public school                 
  system; and providing for an effective date."                                
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE    JRN-PG                     ACTION                                
  02/24/93       434    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  02/24/93       434    (H)   HES, FINANCE                                     
  03/12/93       628    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): KOTT                               
  03/22/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  03/22/93              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  03/30/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
                                                                               
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
                                                                               
  TAPE 93-52, SIDE A                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE called the meeting to order at 3:12 p.m., noted                  
  members present and announced the calendar.  He brought                      
  HB 83 to the table.                                                          
  HB 83:  APPROP: SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION GRANT FUND                               
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE noted that the committee had considered and                      
  passed the bill the previous day, March 29, 1993.  He moved                  
  that the committee rescind its action to pass the bill.                      
                                                                               
  REP. BRICE objected for the purpose of discussion and asked                  
  the reason for the action.                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE said that he wanted to replace the version of                    
  HB 83 passed from the committee with another version of the                  
  bill as a working draft.                                                     
                                                                               
  REP. BRICE withdrew his objection.                                           
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE declared that the committee had withdrawn the                    
  original version of HB 83, and then had before it a new                      
  version of HB 83.                                                            
                                                                               
  Number 040                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY moved that the committee use the new version of                  
  HB 83 as the working document.                                               
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked for objections, and hearing none, declared                 
  that the committee would use the new version of HB 83 as the                 
  working document.  He asked the pleasure of the committee.                   
                                                                               
  Number 046                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. BRICE asked for a copy of AS 37.25.020, and asked what                  
  it dealt with.                                                               
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE said that the committee did have copies of the                   
  statute.  He said that the only difference between the                       
  version considered on March 29, 1993, and the version                        
  currently before the committee was that the newer version                    
  did not direct specific sums to specific sites.  The newer                   
  version would allow the committee more flexibility, he said.                 
                                                                               
  REP. B. DAVIS asked who would decide.                                        
                                                                               
  REP. BRICE said that it would be left up to the Department                   
  of Education, rather than the school districts.                              
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE disagreed, saying that those decisions would be                  
  made by the House Finance Committee, which was the next                      
  committee of referral for the bill.                                          
                                                                               
  Number 065                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY moved that the new version of HB 83 be passed                    
  with individual recommendations.                                             
                                                                               
  REP. BRICE objected.  He asked if it was not within the                      
  purview of the Health, Eduction and Social Services                          
  Committee (HESS) to make such decisions.                                     
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE said that any input Rep. Brice wanted to give to                 
  the Finance Committee would be appreciated.                                  
                                                                               
  REP. BRICE countered that he would like to be able to vote                   
  on his input.                                                                
                                                                               
  Number 079                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE noted Rep. Brice's concern.                                      
                                                                               
  REP. OLBERG said he was aware of at least three versions of                  
  the list of projects to be funded under HB 83, and that he                   
  was sure there would be even more versions.  He said that,                   
  at that point, he supported swift passage of HB 83 from the                  
  HESS Committee.                                                              
                                                                               
  Number 108                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked for further discussion and, hearing none,                  
  called for a roll call vote on the motion.  Those voting yes                 
  were Reps. Olberg, Vezey, Bunde, Toohey and Kott.  Those                     
  voting no were Reps. Brice and B. Davis.  The motion passed                  
  5-2.                                                                         
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE declared that CSHB 83 had passed from the                        
  committee with individual recommendations.                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE then brought HCR 15 to the table.                                
  HCR 15: SCHOOL BUS DRIVER APPRECIATION DAY                                   
                                                                               
  Number 123                                                                   
                                                                               
  LINDA GJOSUND, LEGISLATIVE AIDE TO REP. GAIL PHILLIPS,                       
  testified on behalf of Rep. Phillips, the prime sponsor of                   
  HCR 15.  She said she had worked for the Kenai Peninsula                     
  School District and respected the bus drivers and the job                    
  they did.  She said the bus drivers did a good job and                       
  created a good rapport with the children on their buses.                     
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE said the resolution probably did not go far                      
  enough, as it did not involve combat pay.  He asked for                      
  questions from the committee.                                                
                                                                               
  Number 144                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. BRICE moved passage of HCR 15 with individual                           
  recommendations and asked for unanimous consent.                             
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT commented that it was comical that Rep. Phillips                   
  had also sponsored legislation a few weeks earlier that                      
  considered school bus drivers as "bad guys" who should be                    
  tested for drug use.                                                         
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE, hearing no objection, declared HCR 15 had                       
  passed from the committee with individual recommendations.                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE then brought HB 190 to the table.                                
  Number 163                                                                   
                                                                               
  HB 190:  ALASKA SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY FOUNDATION GRANTS                     
                                                                               
  TOM ANDERSON, LEGISLATIVE AIDE TO REP. TERRY MARTIN,                         
  testified on behalf of Rep. Martin, the prime sponsor of the                 
  bill.  He conveyed Rep. Martin's apologies for having to be                  
  at a Finance Committee meeting which necessitated his                        
  absence from the HESS Committee meeting.  He said HB 190 was                 
  a simple bill which made it clear that the board of                          
  directors of the Alaska Science and Technology Foundation                    
  (ASTF) could issue grants to the University of Alaska.  He                   
  said the ASTF directors already had such authority under the                 
  statute granting the foundation authority to give preference                 
  to Alaska organizations.  He said the university would get                   
  no special preference in its grant applications through the                  
  bill.                                                                        
                                                                               
  Number 190                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. BRICE asked whether the bill would mean the university                  
  would no longer have to compete in the regular grant                         
  application process.                                                         
                                                                               
  MR. ANDERSON answered no, there would be no change in the                    
  application process.                                                         
                                                                               
  REP. BRICE asked if there had been any talk of giving any                    
  preference to K-12 education (in funding grants).                            
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY asked what the question had to do with the                       
  university.                                                                  
                                                                               
  REP. BRICE said none, but given the concern in the state                     
  over education, there might be a need for such preference as                 
  well.                                                                        
                                                                               
  MR. ANDERSON said there was no preference granted under                      
  HB 190.  He repeated that Rep. Martin wanted to make clear                   
  that the university could receive grants from the ASTF.  He                  
  said that several grants had already been made to K-12                       
  education.                                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 219                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE commented that the bill was an effort to                         
  encourage the university to look to the ASTF for research                    
  funding.                                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 224                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY asked if the ASTF funded basic research.                         
                                                                               
  MR. ANDERSON said that was correct.                                          
                                                                               
  Number 225                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE noted that the director of the foundation would                  
  soon offer testimony by teleconference and could answer some                 
  questions.                                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 228                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT asked Mr. Anderson what was classified as an                       
  institution under the bill.                                                  
                                                                               
  MR. ANDERSON answered that the university was one                            
  institution and a hospital would be another.                                 
                                                                               
  Number 237                                                                   
                                                                               
  JOHN SIBERT, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ALASKA SCIENCE AND                          
  TECHNOLOGY FOUNDATION, testified via teleconference from                     
  Anchorage in support of HB 190.  He said the foundation                      
  funded many university projects already.  He said the bill                   
  might be unnecessary, as all University of Alaska                            
  researchers already knew of the ASTF.  He said that the                      
  foundation had funded about 28 of 107 full proposals from                    
  the university, and that about 30 percent of all projects                    
  the foundation has funded have involved the university.  He                  
  said the foundation did not fund the kind of basic research                  
  performed by the university, but served a niche of needs                     
  driven research.                                                             
                                                                               
  MR. SIBERT stated that the bill would not increase the                       
  number of university projects funded by the ASTF.  He also                   
  expressed worry over having a bill relating to the                           
  foundation on the floor of the legislature late in the                       
  session.  He said the foundation directors, in evaluating                    
  grant applications, tried to focus on the effect of issuing                  
  the grant, and not focus on the identity of the originating                  
  institution.  He said that part of the foundation's mission                  
  was to fund projects dealing with K-12 education.  He noted                  
  two programs to provide teachers with direct grants.  One                    
  allows teachers to learn how better to teach math, science                   
  and physics using local culture and environment, while                       
  another provides a summer industrial fellowship to involve                   
  teachers in research projects funded by the foundation.  In                  
  summary, he said that while he appreciated Rep. Martin's                     
  intent, the legislation was probably unnecessary.                            
                                                                               
  Number 302                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. ANDERSON commented that Rep. Martin, as a member of the                  
  House Finance Committee, believed that some research funding                 
  was wasteful.  He said the state might save some money by                    
  pointing out that the ASTF was a source of funding for some                  
  research.                                                                    
                                                                               
  REP. BRICE noted that the bill indicated, in Section 1,                      
  lines 5-7, that the directors of the ASTF would give                         
  preference in awarding grants to Alaska residents or                         
  institutions.                                                                
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE closed public testimony on HB 190 and asked the                  
  will of the committee.                                                       
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT moved passage of HB 190 with individual                            
  recommendations.                                                             
                                                                               
  REP. B. DAVIS objected.                                                      
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE called for a roll call vote on the motion.                       
  Those voting yes were Reps. G. Davis, Kott, Olberg, Toohey                   
  and Bunde.  Those voting no were Reps. B. Davis and Brice.                   
  The motion passed 5-2.  He then brought HB 174 to the table.                 
  HB 174:  CONSOLIDATION OF SCHOOL DISTRICTS                                   
                                                                               
  Number 346                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. ANDERSON testified in Juneau representing Rep. Martin,                   
  the prime sponsor of the bill.  He said the intent of the                    
  bill was to further the discussion of school district                        
  consolidation.  He said Rep. Martin asked the HESS Committee                 
  not to pass the bill from committee, so as to allow time                     
  during the interim and in the second session of the 18th                     
  Legislature to consider the bill further.  He referred to an                 
  amendment he had passed out to the committee which would                     
  require REAAs (Rural Education Attendance Areas) to have at                  
  least 1,000 students or be consolidated with another area.                   
  He said Rep. Martin believed that combining some single-site                 
  school districts, such as the Iditarod, Kuspuk, Yupiit and                   
  Lower Kuskokwim, would not only save the state money, but                    
  would also bring together students that should probably be                   
  in the same school district.  He said Rep. Martin's intent                   
  was not to ignore or disrupt ethnic or cultural differences,                 
  but to save money.  He referred to information from the                      
  Division of Legislative Audit in the bill packet relating to                 
  the potential for saving money by consolidating school                       
  districts.                                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 388                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE said he believed that Rep. Martin had said that                  
  he was not attempting through the bill to promote racial                     
  segregation.                                                                 
                                                                               
  MR. ANDERSON said that was correct.                                          
                                                                               
  Number 393                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. VEZEY commented that the amendment did not make sense.                  
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE said the committee had not adopted the                           
  amendment.                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. VEZEY moved the amendment for purposes of discussion.                   
                                                                               
  REP. BRICE objected.                                                         
                                                                               
  Number 401                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. VEZEY repeated that the amendment did not make sense.                   
  He said that Section 6 of the bill amended AS 29.35.260(B),                  
  while the amendment presented by Rep. Martin's aide listed a                 
  change to AS 14.12.025.  He stated that Section 7 of the                     
  original bill would repeal AS 14.12.025.                                     
                                                                               
  MR. ANDERSON said the repeal of AS 14.12.020 merely put back                 
  what was already there.  He said Rep. Martin believed that                   
  the bill should not attempt to consolidate single-site, city                 
  or borough school districts.  The bill was an attempt to                     
  deal just with REAAs, he said.  He said Section 6 would                      
  allow city or borough school districts as long as they had                   
  at least 250 students, he said.                                              
                                                                               
  Number 429                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. VEZEY repeated that he believed that the amendment was                  
  seriously flawed.                                                            
                                                                               
  MR. ANDERSON said he would have to consult with Legal                        
  Services concerning Section 7 and Section 8.                                 
                                                                               
  REP. VEZEY stated that just deleting part of Section 7 would                 
  handle part of the problem.  He asked whether the amendment                  
  would delete all of Section 6.                                               
                                                                               
  Number 444                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE noted that, since the sponsor did not want to                    
  move the bill swiftly, it might be appropriate to take                       
  testimony on the bill and then hold it over to the interim                   
  for more work on detailed issues.  He suggested that the                     
  bill might be modified to encourage better attendance at                     
  some schools by relating state funding levels to attendance                  
  levels.                                                                      
                                                                               
  Number 460                                                                   
                                                                               
  CARL ROSE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ASSOCIATION OF ALASKA SCHOOL                  
  BOARDS, testified in Juneau in opposition to HB 174.  He                     
  said there was a gap between state policy and the bill's                     
  proposal and he would be glad to work with Rep. Martin                       
  during the interim.  He said he had recently returned from a                 
  meeting of the National School Board Association held in                     
  California, a state with many school districts large and                     
  small.  He said that many first-class cities in Alaska                       
  receive the same proportion of education funding as                          
  Anchorage does, excluding area cost differentials in the                     
  foundation formula.  He stated many such first-class                         
  communities supported their school districts at a high rate.                 
  He noted that Skagway, where he lives and serves on the                      
  school board, provides $400,000 of its $1.4 million budget                   
  through local taxes.  He said consolidation solely based on                  
  numbers was offensive to smaller communities.  He stated                     
  there was a misunderstanding about how smaller districts                     
  operate.  He remarked that he wanted to teach members of the                 
  House and Senate HESS Committees how the state educational                   
  system worked so they could understand that consolidation                    
  might not save money.  He said consolidation would run                       
  counter to efforts to provide more local control of schools.                 
                                                                               
  Number 502                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY said that the state respected the need for local                 
  autonomy.  However, she said, consolidating five schools in                  
  one small area under a single superintendent did not                         
  eliminate local community control of the schools.  She said                  
  the bill was addressing the fact that each of five small                     
  school districts was a separate entity.                                      
                                                                               
  MR. ROSE said some school districts were close together.  He                 
  stated, however, that superintendents at smaller school                      
  districts had different jobs than those at urban districts.                  
  He said some superintendents also teach, and eliminating a                   
  superintendent would therefore not save a school district                    
  much money.                                                                  
                                                                               
  Number 515                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE said the committee realized that eliminating a                   
  superintendent would not mean all of his salary would go                     
  into the classroom.  However, he said, a teacher who was                     
  also a superintendent could not put all of his time into a                   
  classroom.                                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 522                                                                   
                                                                               
  DUANE GUILEY, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF EDUCATION FINANCE AND                    
  SUPPORT SERVICES, DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, testified in                      
  Juneau on HB 174.  He addressed the fiscal note prepared for                 
  HB 174 by the Department of Education.  He said HB 174 would                 
  cause a loss of about $6.8 million in revenue to the state                   
  in the first year after it was passed, as communities                        
  required to make local contributions for their schools were                  
  folded into REAAs, which had no such requirements.  He said                  
  the bill addressed only REAAs and city school districts                      
  serving fewer than 1,000 students, which included 41 of 54                   
  state school districts.  He said it ignored the six borough                  
  school districts with fewer than 1,000 students.  He said                    
  consolidating some school districts might create new                         
  districts, which would cover excessively large geographical                  
  areas.  He stated the department's support for local control                 
  of and input into educational programs.                                      
                                                                               
  Number 542                                                                   
                                                                               
  JOHN HOLST, SUPERINTENDENT OF CRAIG CITY SCHOOLS, testified                  
  via teleconference from Ketchikan in opposition to HB 174.                   
  He said he was glad to hear the bill was limited to REAAs.                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE noted that the proposed amendment on the floor                   
  would limit the bill's provisions to REAAs.                                  
                                                                               
  MR. HOLST said consolidation of the three REAAs in                           
  Southeastern Alaska into one district would create large                     
  problems.  He said that money would not be saved by                          
  consolidating city school districts, which he said were                      
  among the most efficient in the state considering the work                   
  actually performed by superintendents and principals.  He                    
  said the bill was bad legislation that did not address                       
  educational issues in any systematic way.                                    
                                                                               
  Number 571                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. VEZEY asked why, in light of the extra $1 million state                 
  appropriation for single-site schools, consolidation would                   
  not save money.                                                              
                                                                               
  MR. HOLST said the foundation formula established in 1987                    
  did not treat single-site districts fairly, and recognition                  
  of that fact resulted in immediate promises to fix the                       
  situation.  He said Craig had since gotten supplemental                      
  funds ranging from $108,000 to $160,00 each year.  He stated                 
  that the Alaska 2000 committee's recommendations on school                   
  funding resolved the single-site funding inequity and other                  
  equity issues around the state.                                              
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked if that satisfied Rep. Vezey's question.                   
                                                                               
  REP. VEZEY answered that it did.                                             
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE noted that a chart available to the committee                    
  members showed that administration costs for the Lower Yukon                 
  and Lower Kuskokwim school districts were quite substantial.                 
                                                                               
  TAPE 93-52, SIDE B                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  BOB WEINSTEIN, SUPERINTENDENT OF THE SOUTHEAST ISLAND ALASKA                 
  SCHOOL DISTRICT, testified via teleconference from Ketchikan                 
  on HB 174.  He said the district had no official position on                 
  the bill.  He said it appeared appropriate for state policy                  
  makers to ensure that state education funds were spent as                    
  efficiently as possible.  He urged that decisions on                         
  consolidation be made only after considering all pertinent                   
  information.  He said it might be inappropriate to set the                   
  district minimum at 1,000 students, because that might limit                 
  options, especially considering cultural or other factors.                   
                                                                               
  Number 053                                                                   
                                                                               
  BOBETTE BUSH, INTERIM SUPERINTENDENT OF THE KUSPUK SCHOOL                    
  DISTRICT, testified via teleconference from Aniak on HB 174.                 
  She said she did not understand why REAAs were being singled                 
  out when they often have more students than some city school                 
  districts.                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE said that in some cases administration costs are                 
  extremely high for REAAs.  He referred to the Lower                          
  Kuskokwim school district, with an ADM (average daily                        
  membership) of 3,000 students and $2.5 million in                            
  administrative costs, compared to the Mat-Su school                          
  district, which had 10,000 students and $3 million in                        
  administrative costs.                                                        
                                                                               
  Number 073                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. BUSH asked whether the same logic could not also apply                   
  to very small city school districts.                                         
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE said he was not the sponsor of HB 174, but his                   
  personal preference would be to have the bill apply as                       
  equally across the state as possible.  He said Ms. Bush                      
  might not have heard the earlier announcement that the bill                  
  would be held and worked on over the interim.                                
                                                                               
  Number 084                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. BUSH disputed assertions made in a previous committee                    
  meeting that REAAs provided no local contribution for their                  
  state educational funding.  She said that her REAA                           
  contributed 15 percent of its basic needs to the state in                    
  PL-874 funds.                                                                
                                                                               
  Number 098                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE said that was a good point and it would be                       
  considered.  He noted, however, that the discussion in the                   
  previous day's meeting was on matching grants for capital                    
  projects.                                                                    
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY asked what PL-874 funds were.                                    
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE reminded her that the funds were federal funds                   
  paid to a state on behalf of military or Indian lands that                   
  would not otherwise provide tax revenue for schools.                         
                                                                               
  REP. NICHOLIA pointed out that the Mat-Su school district                    
  was on the road system and had milder weather, which made                    
  many costs lower than those of the Kuspuk school district.                   
                                                                               
  MS. BUSH agreed and added that providing an equal level of                   
  services to remote schools cost a lot of money.                              
                                                                               
  REP. NICHOLIA asked whether such costs were budgeted as part                 
  of the administrative costs.                                                 
                                                                               
  MS. BUSH answered yes, the school board and school                           
  superintendent's travel budgets paid for much travel to the                  
  remote schools.                                                              
                                                                               
  Number 148                                                                   
                                                                               
  RON DELAY, SUPERINTENDENT OF THE TANANA SCHOOL DISTRICT,                     
  testified via teleconference from Tanana on HB 174.  He said                 
  he had studied the conclusions of the legislative audit                      
  report on consolidation and cited its recommendation that a                  
  more compelling case needed to be made for consolidation,                    
  given the minor savings and loss of important local control                  
  that consolidation would cause.                                              
                                                                               
  Number 174                                                                   
                                                                               
  PAUL THIBODEAU testified via teleconference from Craig in                    
  opposition to HB 174.  He said he would echo the comments of                 
  Mr. Rose.  He said the Craig local school district's                         
  administration costs were the lowest in the state.  He noted                 
  that consolidation would not solve the many problems of                      
  small school districts.  He said local control worked well                   
  in Craig, and the community had directed a one percent fish                  
  sales tax toward education, demonstrating that the community                 
  was taking responsibility for its children.                                  
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE noted there were two observers on-line from Tok.                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Number 218                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. BRICE asked Mr. Delay to describe all the duties he                     
  performed as superintendent.                                                 
                                                                               
  MR. DELAY answered that his duties as superintendent covered                 
  a wide range, including managing the instructional program,                  
  voc-ed, special-ed, teaching, bi-lingual education, district                 
  administration, management, planning, facilities and federal                 
  programs.                                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 265                                                                   
                                                                               
  BILL MILLER, SUPERINTENDENT OF THE GALENA CITY SCHOOL                        
  DISTRICT, testified via teleconference from Galena in                        
  opposition to HB 174.  He asked if first-class cities'                       
  school districts were not covered by the bill.                               
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE said that was the intent of an as-yet unadopted                  
  amendment.                                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 270                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. MILLER stated that Galena had voted in a school tax 15                   
  years ago because the community wanted local control,                        
  control they still want to retain.  He cited a study in the                  
  state of Washington which showed that larger school                          
  districts paid more per student on central office                            
  expenditures than smaller districts.                                         
                                                                               
  MR. MILLER explained that central offices had many                           
  functions, such as curriculum, activities, and personnel,                    
  which were performed by superintendents in smaller school                    
  districts.  He noted that superintendents and principals                     
  perform different jobs.  He said on-site superintendents for                 
  a single school district are more likely to work harder to                   
  seek grant money than superintendents of consolidated school                 
  districts.                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. MILLER mentioned the Interior School Boards Association,                 
  an association of school boards of school districts on the                   
  state road system, including Galena, Tanana, Nenana, Delta-                  
  Greely and others, which has been meeting for three years to                 
  find ways to cut costs.  He said the association was finding                 
  ways to share services while still maintaining local                         
  control.  He stated that as the superintendent's job in                      
  Galena was open, the school board had seriously considered                   
  contracting out the services of a superintendent and had                     
  asked for proposals, but then decided against the plan.  He                  
  said the district would apply for a $100,000 cooperative                     
  agreement grant to seek ways to save money.                                  
                                                                               
  MR. MILLER noted that the achievement scores for the                         
  district were above the 50 percentile, and no students                       
  dropped out in 1992 despite the fact that many students                      
  might be considered high risk students.  He cited another                    
  study that said school consolidation in the 20th century                     
  might have hurt the cause of learning.                                       
                                                                               
  Number 367                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE referred to a chart which said that Galena, with                 
  an ADM of 156 students, employed 1.5 administrative                          
  staffers.  He compared that to the Hydaburg school district,                 
  which had almost three administrative staffers for an ADM of                 
  117 students; and St. Marys, which had six administrative                    
  staffers for an ADM of 127 students.                                         
                                                                               
  Number 377                                                                   
                                                                               
  LEO MORGAN, PRESIDENT OF KUSPUK SCHOOLS, testified via                       
  teleconference from Aniak in opposition to HB 174.  He said                  
  he would echo the testimony of Ms. Bush.  He said there were                 
  too many unanswered issues concerning consolidation.  He                     
  noted the Iditarod and Kuspuk school districts both had                      
  contracts with their teachers and asked how such issues                      
  would be settled if the bill was passed and the districts                    
  were consolidated.  He said that it seemed like the remote                   
  school districts received a lot of money, but prices in some                 
  remote areas were two or three times higher than in                          
  Anchorage.                                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 400                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. NICHOLIA asked Mr. Anderson how many people were                        
  employed in the central office of the Anchorage School                       
  District (ASD) and how much it cost.  She also asked why                     
  there were more people employed in the ASD central office                    
  than in the Department of Education.                                         
                                                                               
  MR. ANDERSON answered that, according to information he had                  
  received from Mr. Rose, there were approximately 26                          
  administrative staffers at the ASD central office, not                       
  including principals.  He said the pay for ASD                               
  administrators, including principals, was slightly less than                 
  $10 million.  He stated that Rep. Martin had another bill                    
  concerning the elimination of unnecessary chief school                       
  administrators that might be of interest to Rep. Nicholia.                   
                                                                               
  Seeing no further business before the committee, CHAIR BUNDE                 
  ADJOURNED the meeting at 4:45 p.m.                                           

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